New Transport Canada Regs for Guided or club trips

Has anyone read the new Transport Cda regs regarding "guided excursions" with canoes or kayaks? Most of them make perfect sense but why on earth is it now necessary to register a kayak as a commercial vessel? And this apparently applies to volunteer unpaid trip leaders for outdoor or paddling clubs! See PaddleCanada.com for details. I'd be really interested to hear what other people think.
Dorothy

not a big deal

here are links to the Paddle Canada articles explaining this:

http://www.paddlecanada.com/resources/instructor-resources/235-new-transport-canada-vessel-regulations-for-guided-excursions.html

http://www.paddlecanada.com/instructors/new-vessel-regulations/vessel-regulations-faq.html

From what I read, the only change from what we should already be doing is the commercial registration. This is not a big deal, it is $50 once every five years. For anyone registering 2 or more boats, you can register the fleet for $50 for 5 years so it gets even cheaper.

This does put some onus on the leader to ensure that group is properly prepared, float plan filed, etc. Like I said, this is all stuff we should be doing now. The bigger question at the moment for me is does a social paddle, announced on this site qualify as a guided excursion? From what I have read, it does. I for one am going to register my boats so that I am covered and do not have to worry about it.

benefit

There is a side benefit here. You will now have a registered boat that you can prove ownership.

New regs

Sorry Dave, I think it is a big deal, maybe not for individuals but for clubs like ours. I agree with all of the requirements for guided excursions and we already follow them anyway. But having to register my kayak as a commercial vessel makes no sense. I am an unpaid, volunteer for a non profit club - in what universe is that a "commercial" activity? Secondly, what happens if I have to rent a boat or borrow one, like I had to do last year? The regs say I have to register the rental..even though I don't own it. And my friend might object to my registering his/her boat under my name! And I already have a hard time trying to get people to volunteer as leaders - this is just one more deterrent. Our club has already offered to buy a fleet registration, but can they legally register a boat that belongs to someone else? I'm just saying, this is a ludicrous waste of time & effort that does absolutely nothing to promote safety. In fact, it actually degrades it - when no one takes responsibility for a group, accidents are more likely to happen.

I agree, sort of

I agree with you that this is one of those stupid government things that misses the mark. I was referring to it not being a big deal to register my boats.

You make valid points regarding rental and borrowed boats. I think that outfitters will be offering registered boats as this is a normal thing for guides to rent. As for registering a friend’s boat, you can only register a boat that you own, hence the benefit of proof of ownership. And yes, I agree that this creates one more barrier to volunteer leaders/guides and if we look at the good leaders/guides, there is no improvement of safety.

We are Paddle Canada members and part of their mandate is to be our voice with Transport Canada in matters like this so perhaps we should be contacting our PC director and voicing our concerns.

Re: New Transport Canada Regs for Guided or club trips

I am firmly against it. A registered kayaker is NOT necessarily a safer kayaker. Registration does not make one certified in CPR, first aid, wilderness first aid or capable of addressing cervical spine injuries and the like. It does not make a paddler more able to perform rescues and it does not make a paddler more intuitive or armed with a heightened capacity for common sense. It does not make the tour leader more capable of dragging a lifeless body out of strong surf nor does it suppose that the tour leader is a skilled map and compass/GPS navigator or skilled predictor of weather changes. The truth is, registration is nothing more than a cash grab disguised as due diligence and safety. What's next? Registering the boots of Bruce Trail leaders or the bikes of bike tour leaders? Are they too going to have to carry a first aid kit with mandatory equipment inside? This is the beginning of a very slippery slope and I am extremely alarmed by it. I am in favor of the adherence to many of the protocols for safe kayaking as outlined in the Transport Canada web page. I am, however, most definitely not in favor of paying money to do what I should be doing anyway. You cannot legislate common sense or safety. If this is NOT about money then why is it that enforcing common sense always ends up costing Joe Public money? Why can the police or Coast Guard not sidle up to my boat and pay ME $50 if I DO have all of the safety and first aid equipment, a float plan and notes indicating I discussed fuel, hydration and signals on shore prior to departure? It would require the same personnel on the water, the same number of motor boats, etc. All they'd need is a hefty cheque book and an ability to give me a sound scolding if I fail to be adequately prepared (by their standards) to lead a tour. Common sense, and perhaps the ability to predict or prevent disaster, cannot be taught and therefore it cannot, and should not, be legislated via registration. That's my two cents worth.

As for Dorothy's comments, she makes some extremely relevant and important remarks that most definitely need to be given due consideration by Transport Canada, paddling clubs, outdoors clubs and even solo kayakers who assume the same responsibilites as tour leaders.

Relax, my little social paddler butterflies ;0)

Hi Everyone!
Thanks Carla for your informed and intelligent response to the topic, and thanks Dorothy for raising the concerns you have regarding volunteer lead social paddles. Thanks to David too. We have been quiet with regards to these new regulations until we were better informed so that we could comment with some useful information!
I have been following this closely and I have spoken to many people regarding the new regulations. Graham Ketcheson and I even had a long talk about it again this morning. I've also spoken with Barry Butcher who works for the Ministry of Transportation. I've also been following all of the articles in the media.
When asked by Graham this morning what we planned to do about it, my response was "absolutely nothing," and interestingly enough, he agreed with my reasoning. He is also in constant talks with the Ministry as well. The general take on this is that it's a bit of a mix-up in the Ministry of Transportation and they just wish it would go away. I think it has actually been on the books since 2007 and has only come to light recently. They are not enforcing any of these regulations this year and probably never will. They don't have the manpower or the money to deal with this. Apparently, while it costs us $50. it costs the Ministry $200. which they obviously don't have. They are already working on a re-write so that it doesn't effect any non-profit clubs like HOC, GLSKA, Scouts, Camps and so on, so definitely none of you have to worry.
It may still stand for people like Learntokayak.ca and White Squall, and Harbourfront, but it will not apply to any of you. I will check once again in May to make a final decision regarding our fleet. It wasn't registering our fleet that concerned me, it was how it would effect our social paddles page and the HOC and GLSKA social paddle scene I was concerned about.
I want to stress that this is my educated opinion from everyone I have sought out for answers so you may all make your own decisions here but I am very happy that this won't effect anyone hoping to run any social paddle on this site or any others!
James says ____ 'em, haha.
I will keep you posted on anything new that I hear and will phone you if it's anything you should know about right away.
I hope my opinion helps!
Best,
Dympna

"Paddlers to enjoy a paper-free summer"

This article was in the star. I think it lets all of us off the hook, for now, unless we are professional guides.


Toronto Star
Paddlers to enjoy paperwork-free summer

February 28, 2011

Bruce Campion-Smith

OTTAWA—Transport Minister Chuck Strahl has some welcome advice for Girl Guides and Scouts planning summer canoe trips — grab the life jackets, the paddles and forget the paperwork.

Strahl has asked transport officials to review “ambiguous” government regulations that had both youth groups — along with other organizations — worried they were facing a new boat tax and reams of paperwork before heading out on canoe and kayak excursions.

But Strahl says such groups were never intended to get ensnared in Transport Canada legislation and wants the rules clarified in time for the summer boating season.

“Can we make it easy for you to go boating with your Boy Scout group? I’m sure we can and I’ve instructed officials to find a way to do that,” Strahl said in an interview Monday.

The minister was reacting to a Star story last week that highlighted confusing boat regulations that paddling organizations insisted had imposed a federal licence requirement for canoes and kayaks used in “guided excursions.”

According to community experts, the change meant that any canoe or kayak with a guide or leader in it — whether paid or volunteer — would be classed as a commercial vessel and required to be registered with Transport Canada's small vessel register.

That had groups like the Girl Guides and Scouts scrambling to figure out how to meet the demands in time for summer.

Transport Canada officials dismissed the issue as a “misunderstanding.” But on Monday, Strahl conceded that rules were confusing and said non-profit groups fell into a grey zone between pleasure craft and commercial operators.

“We need to find a way to address that so they’re not caught up in the same category as a commercial operation,” Strahl said, adding that he’s asked the registrar of vessels as well as the marine safety advisory council for “specific suggestions.”

“What it needs, I think, is some clarity, about what do you do for a non-profit group that is simply out on a pleasure outing,” he said.

“We may actually have to change the legislation to fix this because it’s ambiguous,” he said.

“My objective is to fix this so there are no ifs, ands or buts by the time boating season is upon us,” Strahl said.

Commercial operators will have to register their boats but Strahl stressed they can register a fleet of canoes for $50, rather than paying for each canoe. And contrary to some suggestions, he said photos and an estimate of the boat’s tonnage are not required when registering canoes or kayaks.

Strahl also stressed that the safety rules remain in force, although many camps and groups like Scouts, already have strict internal guidelines for water trips.

“The registration part, we’re going to fix that so they shouldn’t worry about it. They should plan their summer trips,” he said.

Social Paddler Butterflies????

OMG!!! Dympna, NEVER STOP calling me a "social paddler butterfly"!!! It sooooo works for me!!!

Oh, and James, brilliantly said!

we are off the hook!

TC has removed the requirement for human powered vessels:

http://www.paddlecanada.com/latest-news/352-transport-canada-announces-and-canoe-a-kayak-registration-no-longer-required-.html